Monday, March 16, 2020

Acts17apologetics find Trinity in HB; God appears to Abraham and Moses?

In answer to the video "Decapitating Allah (and "Defacing" Islam)"

Gen18:1-2"The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground".
Firstly, none can and has ever seen God, as is explicitly stated in both the Hebrew writings and the Greek testament Ex33:20,Jn1:17. To argue the contrary based on ambiguous verses violates two of the paramount points of scriptural understanding: 1) Use clear verses to explain the unclear ones, and 2) gather all of the pertinent verses and study them completely before reaching a conclusion on a doctrine.  To corroborate, the angels sent by YHWH are sometimes addressed as "YHWH" Ex3:2,4,14,Judges6:12,14,Zech3:1,2 simply because they spoke for Him. 

This is a known axiom of HB scriptural exegisis, that a person's agent is like himself; the agent's action is considered as though his principal had performed it. 

There are many instances such as in Ex12:12 where it is God personally who promises to punish the Egyptians yet a few verses down in v23 it is the "destroyer". Or throughout Isaiah where "the Lord spoke" to such and such while it in fact was the prophet relating the divine inspiration to such a person Isa7:10. Again in Isa22:11 it is God who is said to have built what king Hezekiah made 2Chron32:5 and this is because he was acting as God's agent during the process, trusting Him in his endeavours 2kings18:5. In 2Sam24:1 it is God that incites David to conduct a census while in 1Chron21:1 it is Satan, the adversary that does God's work. Hasatan by the way is an angel, just as the angel sent on specific occasions during the Israelites' exodus to execute the will of God Ex14,23,33etc. God in all those instances was "with" the Israelites through His messenger angel, the same way as a commander talking to the citizen of his nation, telling them he is with them although his soldiers are the ones defending the people.  This angel/messenger of the Lord by the way is incapable of forgiving sins Ex23. It is thus very surprising that Christians would use this type of proof text as an indication of the HB having multiple divine persons. Further the book of Hebrews openly states Jesus is not an angel Heb1. This kind of language, where the agent is called God or the consequence of an agent's actions is attributed to God, is common to the Semitic revelations, and found throughout the Quran too. It stems from the monotheistic notion that God is the creator of all things, including the laws of causality which He maintains and allows at each instant. These are straightforward notions to a person imbedded in Abrahamic monotheism. But as soon as these concepts are read through the lens of polytheistic cultures where multiple gods interact among oneanother and independantly influence the lives of the humans, then confusions appear. 

That is why one will never find an Israelite reading trinity or any other speculation on God's unity in any of the passages proposed by Christians.

Besides these facts, if it is YHWH himself who appeared to Abraham in the shape of Jesus in Genesis 18 as trinitarians want it to be, then who are the "Ancient of Days" and the "son of man" who simultaneously appeared to Daniel in his vision Dan7:9-14? And why is one described with a title evoking eternity while the other stresses his human origin? What is rendered "Ancient of Days" lit. means "the One from the ancient years" - that is, "the same God who existed in ancient times". So if this "Ancient of Days" who stands for YHWH, and the "son of man" for Jesus, appeared together in human form in this vision as all Christian scholars agree, what proof is there that when YHWH manifested himself in human form in Gen18 it was Jesus christ?

In Revelation 4 and 5 it is said that the "Lamb" (which stands for Jesus) came and took a scroll from God's hand as he was sitting on his throne surrounded by "elders". Again both Jesus and YHWH appear simultaneously in human form meaning they are viewed by the authors as distinct so what reason is there to assume the YHWH who appeared throughout the HB was Jesus? 

Also, contrary to what trinitarians want, there are 4 characters in Gen18, not 3. 18:1 says God appears. Then three strangers, who are angels, turn up in v2. God has already appeared before. Abraham asks them to stop and he offers them food. Besides basic chronology, another thing making it clear that V1 and v2 are referring to separate occurrences is that in v22 the "men" were completely separate from God
"the men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD".

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